We will terminate the worker for practices developed by the owners
One of the curses/blessing of human emotion is empathy. It can really get in the way of a nice righteous rant at corporate structures and practices. Seeing the potential negative impact on the lives of the people who did nothing more than follow a script they didn't develop is sobering.
I recently saw the play The Voysey Inheritance by Harley Granville-Barker as adapted by David Mamet. Written in 1905 and adapted last year, it is very thought provoking. One of the key themes is a certain moral relativism when it comes to earning money and what people will do to justify and rationalize certain actions.
A while ago I wrote about inmyzip. Now, when people who were being solicited on the phone by inmyzip do a Google search on the company name my post about it, titled inmyzip zwwisp.com -- What the hell? Scam? Legit? Is it a Business Directory? A SEO service? Is it legit? A Scam? is the number one result. Now I'll ignore the issue of a Search Engine Optimization company that can't even get the top Google link for their own name. They clearly have a different business model for how they are getting clients.
Now I'm sure that what they do is technically legal (after all, they are powered by Lawstar!). The service just wasn't for me. In my post I talked about my experience and simply wondered if this was a scam or a fraud. Unfortunately people must have searched for inmyzip and scam or fraud in the same query in Google. I want to be very clear that the people I spoke to were very polite and clearly knew their script. My issues were more in line with the tone of the script, the methods used to sell the service, the methods used to bill for the services, the lack of customer success stories, and the company’s inability to get their own website working which didn't inspire confidence. These were the factors in my decision and things I wrote about. NONE of these were the fault of the people calling. They were all developed by someone higher up and passed down to the poor call center workers.
Unfortunately it appears that the people running this company couldn't possibly believe that a script that they created, a method that they devised for payment or a lack of customer references could be the problem. I should give them the benefit of the doubt. Maybe they have NO IDEA that any of these things might turn a potential customer off. In their effort to ensure everything is legal, the might have missed the underlying 'feel' to the methods.
I'm spending all this time discussing because of the comment the client relations manager from MSMB2B posted to my blog.. MSMB2B was never mentioned in the call to me, and you will notice that the email is from yet another company, Lawstar. Now I don't want to quote from Hamlet, "The Lady doth protest too much, methinks." But read this letter and tell me what jumps out at you. I've made a few Spocko comments in blue.
Debra - Client Relations Manager - MSMB2B.COM said...(note: The MSMB2B.com domain name doesn't resolve, and is registered to yet another company, Medistar.)
Dear Sir, I want to first apologize for any and all inconveniences that you have experienced with our company. It is my job to ensure the satisfaction of every member, potential member and former member of our company. I wanted to take the time to let you know that we DO NOT practice anything that is remotely unethical and we terminate any employee that attempts to do so. I understand that you had an unfortunate time with the sales rep that you spoke to but believe me, that is not the practice of the company. I have looked on your website to try and locate a contact number but I was unable to do so, so this is the only means that I have to express how sorry I am that you are not pleased with our company at the moment. (Termination offer #1)
I also want to let you know that we do not outsource to Pakistan as you stated on your website, our call center is located in the Philippines (Actually I never said that. I guessed Kuala Lumpur which is in Malaysia) and we do our best to make sure that each employee that is hired has the ability to serve our U.S. clients with 110% satisfaction guaranteed.
Our goal here is to ensure the success of small businesses by using SEO. We want to help businesses succeed by beating out the bigger chains. It's important to know that the underdog can come out on top as well, without having to spend a mini fortune. And that is what we do here, there is no scam or thievery going on, we are completely open with all of our tactics and methods and whenever there is an employee that is not following our company guidelines we terminate them on the spot, we have a zero tolerance level for these types of practices. That is why I would like to have a conversation with you so that (Termination offer #2)
I can again apologize for the inconveniences and also to obtain some information so that I will be able to find the sales rep that spoke to you and terminate her immediately. I also wanted you to know that we are aware of our website being down and we are working around the clock to get everything up and running smoothly for our customers and we do credit our customers for the time that they are inconvenienced because of our technical problems. (Termination offer #3)
I would very much like to speak with you at your convenience so we can discuss this matter in further detail. You will find my contact information below.
Thank you for your time.
debra@lawstar.com
323-525-3900
Map for the Geographically Impaired
I was WAY off, but at least I know that Kuala Lumpur is not in Pakistan!
I'm glad I have a pseudonym because they seem very eager to fire this poor call center worker. If my number was displayed here they might have simply done a reverse look up and terminated the worker. That would make me very sad, especially since she did nothing wrong. Again, for the record, I don’t think this is a scam or a fraud just a poorly thought out selling and billing methods for a product that I couldn’t determine the value of because of the company’s inability to provide a working website that contained verifiable users I could contact. Please don’t terminate the workers I talked to because of processes and methods the management put in place.
I recently saw the play The Voysey Inheritance by Harley Granville-Barker as adapted by David Mamet. Written in 1905 and adapted last year, it is very thought provoking. One of the key themes is a certain moral relativism when it comes to earning money and what people will do to justify and rationalize certain actions.
A while ago I wrote about inmyzip. Now, when people who were being solicited on the phone by inmyzip do a Google search on the company name my post about it, titled inmyzip zwwisp.com -- What the hell? Scam? Legit? Is it a Business Directory? A SEO service? Is it legit? A Scam? is the number one result. Now I'll ignore the issue of a Search Engine Optimization company that can't even get the top Google link for their own name. They clearly have a different business model for how they are getting clients.
Now I'm sure that what they do is technically legal (after all, they are powered by Lawstar!). The service just wasn't for me. In my post I talked about my experience and simply wondered if this was a scam or a fraud. Unfortunately people must have searched for inmyzip and scam or fraud in the same query in Google. I want to be very clear that the people I spoke to were very polite and clearly knew their script. My issues were more in line with the tone of the script, the methods used to sell the service, the methods used to bill for the services, the lack of customer success stories, and the company’s inability to get their own website working which didn't inspire confidence. These were the factors in my decision and things I wrote about. NONE of these were the fault of the people calling. They were all developed by someone higher up and passed down to the poor call center workers.
Unfortunately it appears that the people running this company couldn't possibly believe that a script that they created, a method that they devised for payment or a lack of customer references could be the problem. I should give them the benefit of the doubt. Maybe they have NO IDEA that any of these things might turn a potential customer off. In their effort to ensure everything is legal, the might have missed the underlying 'feel' to the methods.
I'm spending all this time discussing because of the comment the client relations manager from MSMB2B posted to my blog.. MSMB2B was never mentioned in the call to me, and you will notice that the email is from yet another company, Lawstar. Now I don't want to quote from Hamlet, "The Lady doth protest too much, methinks." But read this letter and tell me what jumps out at you. I've made a few Spocko comments in blue.
Debra - Client Relations Manager - MSMB2B.COM said...(note: The MSMB2B.com domain name doesn't resolve, and is registered to yet another company, Medistar.)
Dear Sir, I want to first apologize for any and all inconveniences that you have experienced with our company. It is my job to ensure the satisfaction of every member, potential member and former member of our company. I wanted to take the time to let you know that we DO NOT practice anything that is remotely unethical and we terminate any employee that attempts to do so. I understand that you had an unfortunate time with the sales rep that you spoke to but believe me, that is not the practice of the company. I have looked on your website to try and locate a contact number but I was unable to do so, so this is the only means that I have to express how sorry I am that you are not pleased with our company at the moment. (Termination offer #1)
I also want to let you know that we do not outsource to Pakistan as you stated on your website, our call center is located in the Philippines (Actually I never said that. I guessed Kuala Lumpur which is in Malaysia) and we do our best to make sure that each employee that is hired has the ability to serve our U.S. clients with 110% satisfaction guaranteed.
Our goal here is to ensure the success of small businesses by using SEO. We want to help businesses succeed by beating out the bigger chains. It's important to know that the underdog can come out on top as well, without having to spend a mini fortune. And that is what we do here, there is no scam or thievery going on, we are completely open with all of our tactics and methods and whenever there is an employee that is not following our company guidelines we terminate them on the spot, we have a zero tolerance level for these types of practices. That is why I would like to have a conversation with you so that (Termination offer #2)
I can again apologize for the inconveniences and also to obtain some information so that I will be able to find the sales rep that spoke to you and terminate her immediately. I also wanted you to know that we are aware of our website being down and we are working around the clock to get everything up and running smoothly for our customers and we do credit our customers for the time that they are inconvenienced because of our technical problems. (Termination offer #3)
I would very much like to speak with you at your convenience so we can discuss this matter in further detail. You will find my contact information below.
Thank you for your time.
debra@lawstar.com
323-525-3900
Map for the Geographically Impaired
I was WAY off, but at least I know that Kuala Lumpur is not in Pakistan!
I'm glad I have a pseudonym because they seem very eager to fire this poor call center worker. If my number was displayed here they might have simply done a reverse look up and terminated the worker. That would make me very sad, especially since she did nothing wrong. Again, for the record, I don’t think this is a scam or a fraud just a poorly thought out selling and billing methods for a product that I couldn’t determine the value of because of the company’s inability to provide a working website that contained verifiable users I could contact. Please don’t terminate the workers I talked to because of processes and methods the management put in place.
18 Comments:
I must say you provided an excellent map for those who are geographically challenged. Good job!
GradeSchoolTeach
Ugghh... not only are they completely outsourced, it sounds like they use sweatshop tactics.
Terminate sounds an awful lot like liquidate. Or sanction with extreme prejudice. Are you sure these aren't Romulans in disguise?
I'm sure they are all fine law abiding citizens of the world.
I better watch my back. Keep checking in Kelly B. I might have just pissed off the wrong group of people.
They are in fact a scam lets see what the BBB has to say http://www.labbb.org/BBBWeb/Forms/Business/CompanyReportPage_Expository.aspx?CompanyID=13218430&hAKAID=14&hAddrID=12
Ohhh,Anonymous, good catch!
Thanks for the info! Thanks for posting!
I work for a mid-size engineering company in Florida and got a cold call this morning from a woman (Hispanic accent I think) saying she was from MYZWW.com. She stated that they had some sort of on-line directory they wanted to add our company to. Supposedly it was complimentary for the first 30 days and would contact us within those 30 days to see if we still wanted the service.
I didn't want anything but it was early in the day and was pre-occupied with work. I also had not received a phone call quite like this (the normal potential scam calls I get are people asking for the serial number on my copier. I pick up on those right away). She just caught me a little off-guard.
Eventually we get to some kind of verification part. She wants me to answer yes or no to the following questions (she wants the questions answered uninterrupted during the process). She asks the questions and says yes at the end of each question, almost urging me on to say yes.
The questions were
Today's date is....?
Your name is....?
Your companies name is....?
Your position is structural Engineer?
You can make business decisions for your company?
It was about this time during the questions I realized something seemed weird. After the second question I asked "Who are you with?" She says myzww and starts asking questions again. I ask her why she is asking me the same questions again. She states the questions and answer sequence must be uninterrupted. To the 5th question I answer no, I cannot make business decisions for my company. She starts asking the questions again. I stop her. Eventually, she says have a nice day and hangs up.
I figured that was the end of it, but ten minutes later a male calls up (Hispanic accent I think and equally as hard to completely understand). He explains that the service is complimentary for a year and that there are no obligations to buy anything. He wants to send promotional material for us to view as well.
He starts asking the verification questions again. To the third question he changes my job title to supervisor (Your position is supervisor?) I answer no, I am a structural engineer and project manager. He asks the same questions again keeping my job title as supervisor. I ask him why he keeps saying my job title is supervisor. He apologizes and does the same thing again. At this point I hang the phone up in his ear and reflect on why I didn't hang up sooner.
It's not as if the people were rude but they were getting annoying.
After the call, I felt possessed to figure out who they were, if possible, so off to the internet I went. MYZWW.com works, but only a search bar comes up. The only other site that came up in my search was this one with links to two articles that led me to MSMB2B and their nice F grade at the Los Angeles Better Business Bureau.
I plan on filing a complaint with the BBB myself. At least I can inform them of questionable phone sales tactics. I am not sure if they are a remotely legitimate business or not. But something is fishy about these folks. Especially considering I never wanted anything from them in the first place.
Thanks for your article and comments from those who aided me on my search.
LAWSTAR dosen't exactly have the greatest resume at the BBB either.
http://www.labbb.org/BBBWeb/Forms/Business/CompanyReportPage_Expository.aspx?CompanyID=13025700
They appear to pull the same crap.
Good Job anonymous from mid-size engineering company in Florida!
Now keep an eye out on your phone bill over the next month. I'm sure there will be no problems, but I like to protect my readers from unwanted charges.
Thanks for posting! Stop by again! Tell your friends!
I finally took the time to find my zip. I rarely do agree to this stuff but what the heck. But I'll tell you it's my last" what the heck" yes.
Anyway we had a discussion about how I would get billed. I told them that they can't bill me through my phone company. Been there and done that. They can either bill me direct or nothing. In any case my solution was to call my phone company and direct them not to do accept any billing from any other source ever.
Just for the record. I've resorted to answering calls in this manner. I slowly say Hello. They answer and ask if the owner is in. I then reply with a grin, " Please leave your number, time of call, date and a brief message. thank you. They hang up before I can get to the end everytime. I've done it 4 times so far. I love it!
I see you ask for blogger, name and web page. Sorry I have no idea how to get there. Besides if I did I might enjoy ripping into these people and I don't have the time.
Dennis in Vermont
Hi Dennis in Vermont!
First, thanks for stopping by.
Second, nice technique in dealing with inmyzip and with the telemarketers.
Third, I love Vermontians! (Vermontites? Vermonters?) You might want to check out a couple of my buddies who blog from Vermont.
Bill Simmon at http://www.candleboy.com/candleblog/
And Ntodd at http://dohiyimir.typepad.com/
Enjoy the end of mudder season! Stop by the blog anytime, you are most welcome.
Spocko
hi there, well, i do understand how u felt or still feel about in my zip, actually, inmyzip is a directory listing, and B2B or MSMB2B is the parent company that offers the other services such as free and discounted legal services, free merchant account, $3 long distance rates, high speed internet, business systems such as IVR & CRM. Well I do not want to sound patronizing but, if we really understand the process, what they actually offer is good, And I am proof that in the event that they call, you could actually cancel or you can call anytime and cancel before the 30 days is up and they will cancel without you getting billed. Then again, I think what makes it sound so confusing or sometimes annoying are the telemarketers grammar lapses or lack of product knowledge or the fact that sometimes they sound nervous when talking to americans, or they just want to make a sale, you know how some Filipinos are. It is true to that whenever a complaint is heard from a client, the poor telemarketer is axed on the spot. Thanks for symphatizing with the poor fellow.
Oh so sorry, it's not $3 dollars long distance rates, it should be 3cents a minutes. so sorry, wrong info.....
You actually did say, "In her sweet Indian voice" in your original posting. You didn't say "In her sweet Malaysian voice"
Just received a call from these people. The woman definitely had an Indian accent. When I asked her where she was at, she said (I am not making this up), "Beverly Hills."
She tried to get me to verify the business address. I asked her for the name of their business. The web site www.inmyzip.com resolved to www.inmyzww.com. I asked her for an 800 number and said I would research the company and call her back IF I were interested.
I searched on Google and immediately found your blog. Thanks. It sounded like a scam just because of the boiler room this person was in.
I've called back and warned them if they call again, I'll file with the FCC. When you actually want some regulations (unwanted faxes and telephone scams), the federal government is unable to provide it. WHY is this?
I don't know if you are going to check this blog for comments again, but i still hope that you do (this is the first time I've read your blog-and I was glued to it for a few moments).
I might be betraying some "trusts" here but I don't give a shit. I know some people who works in that call center... I was concerned because my friend works there so I checked the 'search engines' to see how the 'product' really works. I'd like to commend you for being that agent's champion [the one who called you]... but I should admit that I was infuriated with the other blog I read, and some comments by this person in vermont (or was that you?) about Filipinos. Don't make a hasty generalization-it's a fallacy in logic, a sign of stupidity and narrow-mindedness. Anyway, it's a totally different issue.
Back to the topic. I used to help the guy with the script... by practicing... they were 'programmed' to do that so you really cannot blame them: they're just doing their job... And yes, talking to Americans could be a little freaky especially if that person isn't used to doing that coz u Americans have a stigma with us too, like we Filipinos to you, and it's perfectly understandable due to the societal norms that both race have. The product does have a good 'catch' [anyway, it's free for one month, just cancel it on the last call]- the problem lies in the product presentation.
The bigger picture: people are just doing their job for their survival... if they don't sell, they would be terminated and it adds up to their anxiety because it's hard to find a job in our country... Whenever they get home, they look like hell and they have this 'colorful' way of describing the people they have spoken with over the phone. Don't ask how colorful if you can't take a constructive criticism.
They could get very annoying, I must admit... but you could ease their sufferring by actively listening to them rather than selectively listening to them. After doing so, weigh what they have just said carefully and ask questions politely... hostility will bring you no good. If you're still not satisfied or you don't want the services, merely tell them that you are not interested with the services and to put you in their do not call list-and make it very clear to them. Don't keep 'em too long in the phone if your only aim is to piss 'em off because it's not easy to keep on talking and it's a complete waste of both your times.
Feel free to respond... even if it's a wild reaction... it's your blog anyway.
Nice map by the way. However, it wasn't complete... that was just a part of the country: that was Palawan only.
Don’t become a victim HELP STOP THIS SCAM.
Apparently they are Lawstar another big scam.
www.oag.state.md.us/Securities
/Actions/2004/LawstarBonteFO.pdf
Same address and same owners.
They also own www.ebridgetechnologies.com SCAM?
www.msmb2b.com SCAM?
www-isp.com SCAM?
www.inmyzip-isp.com SCAM?
www.elink-isp.com SCAM?
STOP THIS FRAUD by visiting your local FBI office and file a complaint,
http://www.fbi.gov/contact/fo/fo.htm
Call you local phone company directly and let them know you have BEEN PHONE CRAMMED!!! Mention all entities above and ask for a charge block on your telephone number.
And yes call your local police for harassment.
Anonymous said...
Don’t become a victim HELP STOP THIS SCAM.
Apparently they are Lawstar another big scam.
www.oag.state.md.us/Securities
/Actions/2004/LawstarBonteFO.pdf
Same address and same owners.
They also own www.ebridgetechnologies.com SCAM?
www.msmb2b.com SCAM?
www-isp.com SCAM?
www.inmyzip-isp.com SCAM?
www.elink-isp.com SCAM?
STOP THIS FRAUD by visiting your local FBI office and file a complaint,
http://www.fbi.gov/contact/fo/fo.htm
Call you local phone company directly and let them know you have BEEN PHONE CRAMMED!!! Mention all entities above and ask for a charge block on your telephone number.
And yes call your local police for harassment.
ZWW ISP
Phone: 888-775-9400
Fax: (323) 525-3939
16133 Ventura Blvd. Suite 855
Encino, California, 91436
In July 2007, I was contacted by ZWW-ISP for a 30 Day Trial. At the end of the conversation, I was told it would be $49.95 a month. I said I didn’t want the service or the trial and had to argue with them about not partaking in any of their services. They called twice. Each time I said I didn’t want the service or trial and to take me off their calling list.
It just now came to my attention that I have been being billed the $49.95 a month thru my phone bill since July 2007.
I phoned to cancel and ask for a refund. I was told I would get a 2 month refund, but that would be it. They were supposed to e-mail me the phone recording. That wasn’t done.
I do not want this service and I want my money back in full.
I did not agree to accept the service or offer.
ZWW-ISP are scam artists - Google them; a lot of people have had similar experiences.
They billed through AT&T without an agreement from me.
I did not receive a welcome packet.
When I spoke to the account manager both times, I said I did not want the offer or the service.
No progress report was sent.
No reminder was sent.
By the way, they do have my correct e-mail address.
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